Podcast: Gulfstream, Otto And Syberjet Launch New Jets

Within two days, Gulfstream launches the G300, Otto Aerospace the Phantom 3500 and Syberjet the SJ36. Should we expect more during NBAA-BACE? Aviation Week editors discuss the new aircraft and what they mean to the market.

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Lee Ann Shay (00:10): Welcome to this latest BCA podcast. In two back-to-back days, three aircraft OEMs announced three new jets, the Gulfstream G300, Otto's Phantom 3500 and Syberjet's SJ30. I'm Lee Ann Shay, Aviation Week's executive editor for MRO and Business Aviation. And to discuss these launches with me, our colleagues, Molly McMillin, Aviation Week editor-in-chief of the Weekly of Business Aviation and Managing Editor for Business Aviation. Bill Carey, senior editor for Business Aviation and Guy Norris, senior editor Molly Bill and Guy. Welcome to this podcast. Let's start off with the G300, which is part of the G400, G500, G600, G700 and G800 family bill. You were in Savannah for its launch on September 30th. What stands out to you about this aircraft?

Bill Carey (01:07): Well indeed I was there for in Savannah at Gulfstream's headquarters for what was billed as a customer event. And Gulfstream has a flair for excitement in the lead up to NBAA. Gulfstream president, Mark Burns announced that they're launching the G300, which will replace the G280, which is manufactured with Israel Aerospace Industries in Israel. It is similar to the G280 in terms of operating range and size, but it will come with a new cabin with 10 of the Gulfstream panoramic oval windows, an entirely new interior and a new flight deck. It has the same Honeywell engines but on the flight deck it changes from the Gulfstream PlaneView G280 system, which is on the G280 based on the Collins Pro Line Fusion avionics system to what they're calling now. Gulfstream Harmony, which is based on Honeywell Epic 2X avionics.

(02:26): It's been long anticipated that the G280, which is the smallest, it's a super-midsize category and the smallest business jet that Gulfstream builds. Molly, you actually broke this story last October when you spoke to Hagerty Jets, which is a brokerage founded by a former Gulfstream executive based in Savannah. So I felt that a pretty good source, so it wasn't entirely a surprise. I think the timing, as I said, Gulfstream seems to have a flair for excitement and the small group of invited reporters at this event before it opened were asking each other. Do you know what this is about? I'll be honest, the possibility of the G300 did not come up. So this is similar to what Gulfstream did in 2021. Lee Ann, I think you were with me in Savannah when they surprised us more so at that time by announcing both the G400 and the G800 and that is a succession, it's a new generation of business jets leading from the G400, G500, G600, G700, G800 all under development in just over the last decade.

(03:49): So they're really producing a new generation of jets here and ever since then, really the question was what happens with the G280. Again, the G280 is manufactured under license by Israel Aerospace Industries in Israel. It's then shipped to Gulfstream's completions facility at Dallas Love Field in Dallas for interior finishing. And I asked Gulfstream President Burns if the G300 will be produced on the same terms with Israel Aerospace Industries and he said it remains to be seen if the wing, which is supplied by Korea Aerospace Industries, to Israel Aerospace Industries, if that relationship will be maintained. But so this was kind of the excitement leading up to NBAA.

Lee Ann Shay (04:51): Thanks Bill. The rest of the new family of Gulfstream aircraft have a lot of manufacturing synergies. Do you think they ever considered bringing the G300 into that production?

Bill Carey (05:07): Well, so as you know, Lee Ann, because we were briefed on this back in 2021, the G400 through to G800 are based on the Gulfstream Symmetry flight deck, which is a Honeywell avionics system. And it's also based on an embedded data network that is developed by GE Aerospace. I suspect that it would've been an architecture issue to design in Symmetry into the G280. So in the G280 they had a cabin mockup on display in Savannah and also a representative flight deck there, which still had yokes rather than the sidestick controllers that had been introduced on the G400 through the G800 line of aircraft. Now that I think about it, the G400, which is a 4,000-nautical-mile range, jet has not been certified yet. Gulfstream has said that they expect that to happen by the end of this year. So perhaps that is another announcement they have up their sleeve for NBAA, the G800 just entered service, I believe it was in August this year and the G700 last spring, in the spring of 2024. So they're really introducing a whole new generation of Gulfstream jets very quickly. And this rounds out that kind of new generation with Gulfstream's smallest jet at the G300 super-midsize level.

Lee Ann Shay (06:43): And the day before Otto Aerospace launched the Phantom 3500, the first flight of which is supposed to be in 2027. It also announced that Flexjet is its launch customer Guy. You've been following Otto. What stands out to you about these announcements?

Guy Norris (07:05): Yeah, well, highly, it's an amazing thing. This really, I think it's quite a sort of a real risk venture, but something that offers tremendous sort of a breakthrough change really in the paradigm of capability versus cost. And the reason I say this is that, so I'll just sort rewind the tape a little bit to remind people, our listeners, that in 2017 or thereabouts Aviation Week heard about this odd-shaped aircraft that was flying in California. Nobody had seen anything quite like it, it was like this thing between light aircraft, between a teardrop and an egg shape, and it was called the Celera 500L. We found out built by Otto was a technology demonstrator and everybody wondered why on earth it was shaped so weirdly we'd not seen anything flying like it before. So it turns out that it was really to do with this thing called reducing, increasing laminar flow.

(08:06): That's the last great frontier in aviation aerodynamics. And everybody for the last, well the hundred years aviation's been trying to figure out how to reduce it because if you can reduce frictional drag, you increase your efficiency. And one of the ways of doing this is by promoting laminar flow, which is basically the smooth flow over the wing surface before it breaks up into turbulent flow. So if you can attack this idea of laminar flow, you've really going to change the game. So what Otto has done is through a series of design innovations, they've come up with something that's about the same size as a Bombardier Challenger sort of super-midsize business jet, but because of its reduced drag and lighter weight, they think it can be operated with the same sort of a capital cost, an operating cost of a light jet. So for example, instead of the aircraft about the same size as a Challenger 3500, but instead of got the Honeywell engines, the HTF-7500, it's got Williams FJ44s.

(09:23): So it's to do the same mission, it's got engines which are almost half the power sort of thing. So you get this sort of virtuous cycle of reduced weights, reduced costs, and reduced drag. It all kind of keeps going. So first flight is expected about 2027 with certification to Part 23 and deliveries around 2030. So yeah, it's a huge, as I say, a bit of a risk. It's a technological challenge, but here's a couple of last points I'll make about it. Laminar flow is incredibly difficult to achieve. I mean, it goes back, the history of it goes back to the P-51 Mustang during World War II, for example, was designed with a laminar flow wing because people appreciated the potential benefits. So how do you bring that technology to reality? So what they're doing is they're building this with high-precision thermoplastics and composites as sort of a resin-infused molded composite technique.

(10:29): And they're also basically with this teardrop shape, it means that the first third of the fuselage is completely laminar. The middle section is where it starts to break down a bit. And the third part is turbulent, which is you can't get away with it, it's physics. So to keep that laminar flow, they're trying to avoid even things like windows. And I think Molly and I probably going to talk about this in a little while, but you don't even have windows breaking up that flow that there's nowhere to trip the boundary layer and cause the flow to become turbulent. So that's one thing. The other thing is they're putting a big broad wing on this aircraft a bit broader than bigger span than you'd get normally for this class of aircraft. And that does two things really. One is it promotes high lift at high altitude. So this aircraft's designed to fly up to 51,000 feet and where the air is cleaner and there's lower Reynolds number, so you're able to, it promotes laminar flow.

(11:35): Basically you're above the weather and you're above bugs and insects. And that's one of the things, even the tiniest squished bug on the leading edge of a wing is enough to trip this boundary layer and disturb the laminar flow. So higher the better. But also say that because of this big wing, it also gives the ability to operate in and out of much smaller runways and to climb quicker. So even for shorter, if you don't have to fly transcontinental, if an operator just wants to fly a regular shorter route, they're still able to get up to 30-odd thousand feet quicker and it's a lighter airframe, so they still have that light operating cost benefit. So there's tons to think about here. Oh, and the last point, sorry, I keep saying that. The last point is with laminar flow, because the boundary layer is thinner, it means that you can expand the width of the cabin without penalizing the drag too much. And that means that they're able to offer a cabin which is actually a couple of inches wider than the Challenger 3500, and it's also six feet high in the center. So it's a pretty big cabin and yeah, fascinating. So I could talk endlessly about it. I'm sorry, but fascinating stuff.

Lee Ann Shay (13:00): That is awesome. And I think we have four follow-up podcasts based on that, and that also makes me think about the Bombardier EcoJet, which we haven't heard of for a while. Speaking of laminar flow, so okay, we'll table that one for a second, but I really want to go back to Flexjet and the windowless aircraft. I was at Flexjet in August and wrote a story in the latest BCA Q4 issue, which is going to be out next week. So definitely check that out. And then Molly went to a media day in September where they finally officially announced that they're operating the Gulfstream G700 back to Gulfstream. That's putting Flexjet into a longer range. And Flexjet has also been placing various orders from advanced air mobility, the startups to now Otto Molly. And you've mentioned you talked with Ken Ricci, I believe, about windowless aircraft, right?

Molly McMillin (14:00): Ken Ricci was talking about windowless aircraft and aircraft, and that's the wave of the future. And he spoke about Otto, but he also spoke about the Embraer Phenom model, and I believe it was the 300, I haven't looked at my notes since then, but which will have fewer windows. And he's kind of the prototype on that. And without windows like the Otto aircraft or fewer windows, then you can use AI to create your interiors. So you can show what's below, you can show where you're going. You can do just about anything with this kind of virtual reality in the interior, which will be fascinating.

Lee Ann Shay (14:49): Sounds good. And speaking of other updates, last but not least, on September 30th, Syberjet announced its SJ30, which is a derivative of the single-engine SJ30, which was I think early 1990s. Molly, you wrote about that launch. What's new, what stands out to you?

Molly McMillin (15:14): This is a very unusual project. The Syberjet is something we haven't heard about for a while. Syberjet CEO Trevor Milton unveiled it all about the same time as these other two announcements. It's a $14 million, what he's calling the SJ30 a nine-passenger light jet with expected certification and deliveries in 2032. There's a couple of unique things about this. For one, it's based on the Syberjet SJ30-2, which Trevor Milton calls the most amazing light jet ever built, but one that never made it. According to our Aviation Week data, only nine were built, four delivered the last one in 2006. And Trevor says he owns all of the remaining ones, but one, he has quite a personal story, and I'll get to that, but a little more about the program. He and his team are developing new avionics for the jet, which he's calling the Syber Vision.

(16:19): It's under development right now. It will feature what he says is an advanced glass cockpit platform, six touchscreens flight management system with autopilot auto-throttle, FADEC-compatible fly-by-wire controls, enhanced weather systems, zonal architecture over-the-air updates. And he's also developing what he calls is the first-ever silent zero-emission, 14-kilowatt auxiliary power unit that can remotely control the jet. So he explained it to me like say you're in Las Vegas and you want to leave at 4 p.m. it's hot. You can remotely start the air conditioning system to cool down your jet. So when you get there an hour later, the interior is cool. It's got a lot of other features. But Trevor Milton himself has a quite unusual story. He's admittedly come through some very, very tough times. He's the founder and former CEO of Nikola, a producer of electric and hydrogen-powered trucks.

(17:26): In 2022, he was accused of and found guilty of securities and wire fraud. He was sentenced to four years in prison. He appealed, in fact, President Trump got involved and in March, President Trump granted him a full and unconditional pardon. And in September, just last month, the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission dismissed the case entirely. He calls it five years of hell that no human should ever have to go through. And he in the middle of it, purchased the intellectual property and tooling of Syberjet. Thus the Syberjet SJ30, he says he has brought over the best people from Nikola going into it. They're running simulations up to Mach 0.98 without major shockwave on the aircraft. He says it will have a 3,000-nautical-mile range and a maximum operating speed of Mach 0.8. He said he's completed the design of the chip architecture and he's been remotely updating chips. He's got 1,200 cores running the aerodynamics inside its facility. He's a little bit away from announcing where the facility's going to be and the engine, but that's kind of the program.

Lee Ann Shay (18:49): Thank you, Molly. Team. It's kind of interesting that we've had these new aircraft, these new jets all announced this week. Is there anything that stands out? Any surprises? Do we expect more aircraft to be announced at NBAA?

Molly McMillin (19:09): I think there might be an update. I'm going to be mum on it right now, but there may be a surprise Guy. Anything from you?

Guy Norris (19:17): Yeah, I'm not sure. I think I'm going to defer to Molly and Bill on this one. They cover this day to day, but I think what's amazing to me is the fact that we've had several years of pretty barren news in terms of brand new airframes at successive NBAAs and EBAAs, and this is a very pleasant buildup. So I'm hoping that's the beginning of a new wave. My personal hope is that we're going to see something on the supersonic front reemerge, but that could be a pipe dream, but we'll see.

Molly McMillin (19:51): That's the next frontier. Right?

Guy Norris (19:53): Exactly. Yeah, and I think that's an interesting point. You mentioned the Trump administration lifting perhaps some of the regulations in terms of things that have really kept supersonics down all of these years. And recently, just a few months ago, they lifted the ban on that. So at least I think that kind of would maybe reenergize the market in some places and allow more realistic studies of potentially supersonic business jets to take place. And the last point I should just make on that is that Boom Supersonic, which is developing an airliner, is developing its own engine for that role, and it's the sort of engine that might suit business jets too. So just a thought there.

Bill Carey (20:47): Yeah, and I would expect that we might hear something about the Gulfstream G400 at NBAA. As I mentioned before, that's kind of the last outstanding announcement perhaps that Gulfstream could make at this year's show. Also, I just want to backtrack to the G300. I think I neglected to mention it has a price point of $28.9 million according to Mark Burns and an estimated or a planned entry-into-service date in 2027. So I think this would be, this redesigned G280 essentially would be the first of these new super-midsize jets to enter service versus the Otto Aerospace and Syber Vision platforms that we've discussed.

Molly McMillin (21:36): We might also point out that Gulfstream mentioned that it will have the G300 mockup at NBAA. Textron Aviation is debuting the Citation Ascend the actual airplane, like they've had a mockup at shows before at the show.

Bill Carey (21:58): Molly, when you were describing the concept of windowless Syber, well Syber avionics, the avionics system I guess, but the Syberjet with no windows and the use of artificial intelligence. I thought to myself, what are the bandwidth requirements for something like that to provide a 360-degree dynamic view of the aircraft in flight? And another thing to look forward to at NBAA, which is in just over a week from now, is a lot of connectivity announcements and a lot going on in satellite communications that kind of enable some of these technologies that we've been describing here on the jet itself. And look for updates on the Intelsat Galileo high-bandwidth or high-speed Ka-band SATCOM system, as well as Starlink and announcements from Viasat as well.

Guy Norris (23:00): Just to add onto that, the Otto Phantom 3500, the LED system that Molly and I were talking about earlier on, it's fed by a system of cameras fitted outside the aircraft and they can show what's outside. And I think Molly alluded to this, but this Supernatural Vision as they're calling it, is going to also be capable of displaying Teams meetings or something with your colleagues or so you can have this augmented reality synthetic view at night as well on streaming and video conferencing. It's a very interesting approach. Just one thing, and sorry, I need to correct myself on something. I also said that it was thermoplastic. It's not, I made a mistake there. It's actually to get this natural laminar finish, what they're going to try and use is this resin transfer molding technique. It's actually an out-of-autoclave process to precisely shape composite structure. And I'm not sure that's been used in a business jet before in an application. I could be wrong. Maybe you know that guys, but anyway, just had to throw that in there.

Bill Carey (24:21): Guy, has Otto Aerospace said who's the avionics system they're using?

Guy Norris (24:28): I'm not aware that they have to be honest.

Molly McMillin (24:32): I might mention that on the Phenom it will have a few windows. It will just have reduced windows where I believe Otto's aircraft will have no windows in the back. Is that right?

Guy Norris (24:45): Yeah, no windows at all. The only window I've seen on any of the renderings is the tiny daylight window over the emergency exits, which I think will be required by FAA Part 23 certification standards. But it's tiny. It's only this, just enough for a peephole basically.

Lee Ann Shay (25:05): Well, thank you all. We have a lot of things to follow up at NBAA, but thank you for your insights. That's a wrap for this podcast listeners, thank you so much for listening and don't miss the next episode by subscribing to the BCA podcast, wherever you listen to podcasts. And one last request. If you'd like to support us, please leave us a star rating or write a review. Thank you so much.