Podcast: Live From NBAA-BACE '24 - SFAR Signing, Neil deGrasse Tyson And More

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Transcript

Jeremy Kariuki:

Hello and welcome to the BCA Podcast by Aviation Week Network. I'm your host, associate Editor for Business Aviation Jeremy Kariuki. We are live in Las Vegas for NBAA-BACE, and I'm joined by my colleagues Molly McMillin, Bill Carey and Guy Norris. Welcome everybody.

Bill Carey:

Glad to be here.

Molly McMillin:

Glad to be here.

Guy Norris:

Good to be here.

Jeremy Kariuki:

So there's a lot to talk about today. Bill, I know we have some big news on the FAA side. What's going on there?

Bill Carey:

I guess the most newsworthy event today was the release by the FAA of a Special Federal Aviation Regulation for Powered-lift Aircraft. And that's a new category of aircraft that came to be as a result of this regulation. And it's seen as being critical to the success of the emerging advanced air mobility industry.

Bill Carey:

The FAA sent the AAM industry for a loop two years ago when it announced that it would no longer characterize advanced air mobility vehicles, electric vertical takeoff and landing type aircraft, as Part 23 airplanes under its regulations. And it would create a new powered lift category. As a result of the FAA making that regulatory policy shift, it also required them to issue what's called a special federal aviation regulation governing the operating aspects of new advanced air mobility vehicles, as well as some of the pilot training requirements. That was, at the time, seen as a surprise and a bit of a setback because several different advanced air mobility vehicle developers were going through an arduous certification process, and all of a sudden the FAA threw this complication into that process.

Bill Carey:

Well, the FAA did commit to issuing the SFAR, the Special Federal Aviation Regulation, by the end of 2024 in December, I think is the actual language that was contained in legislation that Congress passed. So they came out early with it today, FAA Administrator Mike Whitaker announced the release of an 800-page SFAR governing powered lift aircraft, a third category of aircraft after fixed-wing and rotorcraft. And now we have what's known as powered lift aircraft.

Bill Carey:

The industry welcomed the release of that regulation. JoeBen Bevirt, the CEO of Joby, is at NBAA, and he reacted to the release and said, this really gives a boost to their efforts to Joby's efforts and creates transparency in what'll be required in terms of operating and pilot training for new advanced air mobility vehicles. And it's a performance based regulation that sets certain metrics for the performance of these aircraft in those two aspects.

Jeremy Kariuki:

eVTOLs and AAM have really been taking up an ever increasing presence at NBAA shows, or Business Aviation shows in general, and that can be seen so much as in the amount of sessions that were on the topic. I went to a few of them today, and a lot of companies, including Joby, BETA, Signature Aviation, Atlantic, and Lilium were all present and accounted for a lot of these sessions and a lot of these panels.

Jeremy Kariuki:

I would like to go into what Sebastian Borel of Lilium talked about how commercializing eVTOLs is going to be easier than people initially expected, given that eVTOLs are going to be entering an existing market, and that would be the helicopter market, instead of going towards the business aviation route, or the traditional business aviation route rather, because of the limitations on range with our current battery technology.

Jeremy Kariuki:

Outside of that, they also talked about infrastructure and had a real big emphasis on connecting cities, not on long haul flights, not on cargo flights, but connecting cities and really doing personnel transport or just short hop flights for small medical stuff for military applications as well. Kevin Cox, CEO of Ferrovial Vertiports talked about eVTOLs being "the right tool for the right mission". They also expressed a lot of emphasis on the advancement of battery technology that we'll see between now and the 2030s. And they expressed a lot of excitement for the future of eVTOLs, especially given the recent FAA signing.

Jeremy Kariuki:

On a different note of sustainability, there's a lot of SAF news going on. Guy, I know you've been keeping your ear to the ground on this, so what's going on in that space?

Guy Norris:

That's right, Jeremy. And in fact, just before we go on to the SAF thing, I just thought, just to add to what you were saying about the eVTOLs and the new advanced air mobility vehicles, as you rightly say, we see more and more at NBAA. One of them today also gave an update, which is the Electra.aero company. They're based in Manassas in Virginia. They were basically saying that although this new legislation doesn't apply to them because they're a fixed-wing airplane, their fixed-wing is also blown wings, which means that they're able to do an... They're eSTOL, not eVTOL. But they're part of this AAM revolution. Interestingly, they're looking at a hybrid-electric option, which gives them this range to do intercity routes with a nine-seater. They're just releasing details, really about their plan to certify and test their vehicles, and they're going to unveil the final configuration next month at an event in November.

Guy Norris:

The other hybrid element of this is I spoke briefly to JoeBen Bevirt outside of the conference this morning, and I said, "So JoeBen, what about this hydrogen test that you did?" Remember, they flew the Joby S4 on a hybrid powered system using hydrogen as a fuel cell and got 500 miles out of it. Even though it was one giant fuel cell with no room for anybody to sit in, it was basically proof of the... and he said, "Yeah, hydrogen, that's the way to go." So there's all sorts of new propulsion things, which are... I mean NBAA, all things it's great.

Guy Norris:

Anyway, but talking of propulsion, SAFs. The great thing about Business Aviation's part to play in this is that it's a leading indicator. It's a leading user, Business Aviation knows in the crosshairs of public perceptions as far as it needs to show that it can be sustainable. It's got everything against it in that regard. So they're really leading the way in sustainable aviation fuels. And I thought one of the great comments that was made this morning, we're here in really the opening day, I suppose, of the show, but one of the great comments was made by GAMA-

Bill Carey:

Pete Bunce.

Guy Norris:

Pete Bunce, exactly. He basically said, every time a government VIP flight flies somewhere around the world, it should be flown on SAFs because-

Bill Carey:

Yeah, I noticed that comment as well.

Jeremy Kariuki:

Leading by example is what he said.

Guy Norris:

Leading by, exactly. I thought that was such a great... Yes, he's absolutely right.

Guy Norris:

But other than that, there was a lot of indication that the industry is taking this role very seriously. And Airbus, interestingly, of all the companies, they came out with a survey which they've just completed. And I thought some of the things that they said about SAF, one was really caught my eye. Not only will, well, U.S. corporations, for example, 89% of senior executives at large US corporations who use private jets believe that SAF use will increase over the next five years with 56% anticipating a significant rise. But this is the interesting thing. Around 90% of those surveyed also believe that this will lead to an increase in U.S. companies using private jets. And I'd never-

Jeremy Kariuki:

Interesting.

Guy Norris:

I know. I never heard that little wrinkle before. So anyway.

Bill Carey:

Yeah, I mean, we've been talking about advanced air mobility and that's exciting, but that's 10 years down the road I would say, in terms of becoming really significant. But SAF is really the lynchpin of all of aviation, including the air transport industry, reaching the mutual goal of net-zero carbon emissions by 2050. That's not going to happen unless there's widespread adoption of SAF.

Bill Carey:

It was interesting, in a panel we all attended this morning, there was a Department of Energy official there that's in the DOE, and through its various national laboratories, including the Renewable Energy Lab, has been working this issue. He was confident that the Biden administration in 2021, I believe it was announced, a SAF grand challenge of the U.S. producing 30 billion gallons of SAF by 2030, which is really only a fraction of the need when compared to aviation's consumption of jet fuel. But that's a big step.

Bill Carey:

He was confident that we will accomplish that goal by 2030, of producing 30 million gallons of SAF per year. And that's really important and Business Aviation, as Guy mentioned, is a leading indicator and has shown that it's willing to adopt, adapt to SAF. There's still some kind of-

Jeremy Kariuki:

Reluctance?

Bill Carey:

... mistrust. I guess mistrust of is SAF Jet-A? Well, SAF is Jet-A. It's just sustainably sourced. It's not based on a petroleum feedstock. So that's still a bit of a nut to crack in Business Aviation. And there's two or three airlines that are making advances in SAF, but the industry, slowly but surely, is working toward its own goal of net zero carbon emissions.

Molly McMillin:

And I think one thing too, that was mentioned today at the breakfast that we all went to was that it doesn't stop with SAF. The manufacturers even are looking at how are they more sustainable and use less energy in the manufacturing process and in their facilities. And it's a top to bottom look at... It's not just SAF, it's a combination of everything. And there's a lot going on.

Bill Carey:

Which Bombardier is really making strides there, isn't it?

Molly McMillin:

Right. Bombardier and Embraer, Michael Amalfitano said something this morning about their facilities and that the aircraft coming out today are about 30% more efficient than the aircraft they replace. And so if you look at over time, there's been a huge advancement toward being more efficient.

Bill Carey:

I really think that the Business Aviation segment of the industry as represented here at NBAA-BACE is on board. Is on board with sustainability. I guess the challenge is to get that message out into the field and to bring in pilots and operators. But the OEMs, the leading industry associations, they're on board with sustainability, with SAF, with advanced air mobility. I'm encouraged to see that.

Jeremy Kariuki:

I think it's worth mentioning Honeywell's business aviation outlook in terms of sustainability. They had surveyed 375 non-fractional operators worldwide. And a lot of them do use SAF according to their research, but only about 55% of them reported... 55% of respondents that are trying to be more sustainable in their operations. Only 55% of them actually use SAF in their operations, citing availability as the number one factor in terms of their use. But the number one method of reducing carbon footprint for a lot of these operators is just using more fuel-efficient aircraft.

Jeremy Kariuki:

But we have a lot to say about just the traditional Business Aviation side of things in terms of aircraft. Molly, what have you seen today? What have you heard today?

Molly McMillin:

Well, there've been announcements about the traditional aircraft, starting with Textron Aviation who came to the show just after their machinists voted to go back to work after being on strike for a month, so there was some relief and optimism now that they're getting back to work. But Textron Aviation announced the next generation of light jets, including the Cessna Citation M2 and what they call the Gen3, the CJ3 Gen3, and the CJ4 Gen3. The upgrades for them all are receiving Garmin's Emergency Autoland technology and some other new features, but mostly the Autoland with Autothrottles, which people have been asking for. And then the Citation CJ4 is also getting new avionics, the Garmin G3000 PRIME. It's the first aircraft to be announced.

Bill Carey:

The Prime is 100% touchscreen, is that the-

Molly McMillin:

But the PRIME upgrade will be available on that. Right, touchscreen, a lot of changes and upgrades to that.

Molly McMillin:

Also in Bombardier's press conference, they announced that they began manufacturing of the major structural components for the first ultra-long range Global 8000 production business jet. And they also gave an update that the flight test program so far has amassed more than 300 flight test hours, and that nearly all the flight testing has been completed. And they're at the point where they've done the initial testing with the regulatory agencies as well.

Molly McMillin:

The manufacturing has been taking place in their facilities in Quebec, in Red Oak, Texas, and their Querétaro, Mexico facilities. So they talking about programs already in development.

Jeremy Kariuki:

There was also some big news from Wheels Up today. They're transitioning their fleet, not the entire fleet, but the overall majority of their fleet, their light jets and their super midsize jets to the Phenom 300 and 300E series and Bombardier's Challenger 300, 350 series aircraft. The Phenom aircraft are actually being acquired from GrandView Aviation. It's going to be 17 of them for a total value of $105 million. The rest of the aircraft, the Challengers are going to be coming from the secondary market. None of these aircraft are going to be bought new. They're wanting to modernize their fleet. They've said that after the modernization is complete, it'll bring their average aircraft age down by 10 years.

Jeremy Kariuki:

But in addition to that, they're also going to be installing Gogo's Galileo HDX inflight connectivity on all of their aircraft. It seems like big news and a very expensive transition, but it's being funded by Delta Airlines, of course. Well supported, credit support from Delta Airlines, through a five-year rotating revenue facility with Bank of America.

Bill Carey:

In other words, the upgrade to the satellite connectivity with the Gogo HDX antenna system?

Bill Carey:

Well, that's about to happen. Gogo is partnered with OneWeb, which has a constellation of low earth orbit satellites, and they're going to be directly competitive with a system that's already out there and getting rave reviews, the Starlink system, which is based on the SpaceX Starlink constellation of 6,000 odd low Earth orbit satellites that are already in space.

Bill Carey:

I mentioned rave reviews, and I had the opportunity for the first time to use that system on a Citation XL as a guest of AMETEK AMI, which has developed an STC to install the Starlink system on King Airs and as well as Citation Jets and has plans for other platforms as well. It works as advertised.

Bill Carey:

I'm not an IT guy or anything, but we were able to see, I think if I recall, we were following download speeds while we were flying. We flew from Henderson Executive Airport, which is the site of the static display of NBAA-BACE, quick half-hour, 40-minute flight in the vicinity. I think there's six of us on board. And we all had our various devices and we were encouraged to call up whatever applications are data intensive and see how it goes. I called my wife on WhatsApp, and actually, according to the guys on the aircraft, that was the first time that anybody had tested WhatsApp. And that's about the extent of my tech savviness. I'm not a gamer, and I didn't have other apps that I could readily access while I was in flight, but I sent emails and I believe I called my colleagues by WhatsApp and clear as a bell. Really impressive.

Bill Carey:

I think we were in the range of 150 megabit per second download speeds, which we could monitor while we were flying. I think Starlink promises something on the order of 100 megabits per second, and we were drawing 150 with no latency issues. So yeah, it works well.

Bill Carey:

They've gotten the jump in the SATCOM connectivity space, Gogo and HDX. I also attended a briefing today given by Gogo and a company it plans to acquire, Satcom Direct. So the market for satellite inflight connectivity is consolidating and it's becoming even more competitive, and it's really exciting. It's an exciting time in the connectivity world.

Guy Norris:

I got to say, Bill, the call you made to Molly and I in our little newsroom was one of the highlights of the NBAA for me. I loved it. It was a first for me receiving a call from somebody on a plane talking live.

Molly McMillin:

It was very plain. I could see your face. It was a video call as well.

Bill Carey:

Well, I'm glad I brought some sunlight to your life during that time.

Guy Norris:

You always do.

Bill Carey:

Thank you. Thank you.

Guy Norris:

Talking of which, we are in fact recording this in Bill's sumptuous hotel room with a vast view looking to the west over the Vegas metropolis towards the mountains. We're all very jealous because all our rooms look over the rubbish bins at the back of the hotel.

Molly McMillin:

Mine looks over the garage, but Bill here is on the 40th floor.

Bill Carey:

Well, I'm like Icarus getting too close to the sun here.

Jeremy Kariuki:

I think another highlight that's worth mentioning is Neil deGrasse Tyson's presence at the opening keynote. The crowd favorite I'm sure, but he really sat down for an interview, if you could call it that. I mean, they did their best, but Neil deGrasse Tyson, once you get him going, he just keeps going. He had a lot to say about how he became a science educator and how he didn't choose to become one, but the responsibility fell upon him. Afterwards, I actually caught him testing out Joby's eVTOL down in the lobby and he was speaking with them, and he seemed very excited by the prospect of electric aviation. Which is not necessarily an endorsement, but it's nice to see that there's going to be more of a lens on the industry, on the emerging industry, and how it's going to develop over the next couple of years.

Guy Norris:

I was intrigued during his speech as it really turned out to be, how he showed a photograph of a letter which he'd received from Orville Wright... Or sorry. Not received. He'd collected a letter from Orville Wright, in which Orville Wright had basically said, while my brother and I didn't wish that aviation had gone to war-like purposes, and it was dated November in 1918, we obviously see that this is going to accelerate progress. He was basically saying, if you try and make predictions about what's going to happen in 100 years, don't.

Molly McMillin:

What I liked what he said was, people ask him about being an influence for kids. And he said, he's not worried about the kids, that they're naturally curious, and so they're going to discover and that what he worries about is adults who lose their curiosity and their urge for learning. That when we get out of school, it's no more books, but to continue the learning and to continue the awe and wanting to learn more about the universe that we're in.

Jeremy Kariuki:

He emphasized that by saying that adults are the ones with money. Adults are the ones with time. Adults are the one with power. So if they're not curious, if they're not motivated, what are the kids going to do?

Molly McMillin:

And he said, "How much is the universe worth to you?"

Guy Norris:

Yeah, right. Absolutely.

Molly McMillin:

You've got to keep learning. It was just a nice lesson for everyone who lives in this universe.

Guy Norris:

Excellent keynote. Really got everybody... Got me thinking, anyway.

Jeremy Kariuki:

Well, I think that's all the time we have for today. So Molly, Bill, Guy, thank you so much for recording this podcast with me. It's always a pleasure to see you in person. I say it every time, and I will say it every time because I prefer this over seeing you guys on a tiny box on my computer screen.

Molly McMillin:

Right, lots of Teams meetings, but this is much better sitting and actually being in person doing this.

Jeremy Kariuki:

Absolutely, so thank you guys.

Bill Carey:

Thank you.

Guy Norris:

Thank you.

Molly McMillin:

Thank you. Thanks for having us.

Jeremy Kariuki:

Thanks for listening to the BCA podcast by Aviation Week Network. This week's episode was produced by Jeremy Kariuki and Andrea Copley-Smith. If you enjoyed the show, don't forget to or follow us on your podcast app of choice. If you'd like to support us, please leave a rating wherever you listen. Thanks again, and we'll see you next time.