Podcast: Good, Bad And Ugly For Aviation MRO Education

Editors discuss MRO workforce challenges, opportunities and DOGE cuts as they reflect on the Aviation Technician Education Council annual conference and Aeronautical Repair Station Association symposium.

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Transcript

James Pozzi:

Hello and welcome to the MRO podcast. I'm James Pozzi, Aviation Week's MRO editor for the EMEA regions. And today we'll be looking at two recent conferences that took place in the U.S. First, the Aviation Technician Education Council annual conference. That of course is widely known under the acronym ATEC. And second, the Aeronautical Repair Station Association, known widely as ARSA and their annual conference, which also recently took place. So joining me today to discuss some of the takeaways from these two conferences are three of our editors. Firstly, there's Lindsay Bjerregaard, who's managing editor for MRO at Aviation Week, and Sean Broderick who is safety editor for Aviation Week. Both Lindsay and Sean attended the ATEC Conference, so will have some insights from there. And of course, Lee Ann Shay, who is Aviation Week's executive editor of MRO and business aviation who attended the ARSA conference. Lindsay, Sean and Lee Ann, welcome.

Lindsay Bjerregaard:

Thanks James.

Sean Broderick:

Good to be here.

Lee Ann Shay:

Great to be here.

James Pozzi:

Excellent. We'll start with Lindsay. I guess, what were some of the key takeaways from the ATEC conference that you attended? Of course, obviously very workforce heavy in terms of subject matter there, but what really stood out to you from there?

Lindsay Bjerregaard:

Sure. So as you'd mentioned the acronym, it's Aviation Technician Education Council. So it is focused very specifically on the Part 147 aviation maintenance training environment. The timing was kind of interesting. Two days after the conference ended, President Trump signed an executive order wanting to dismantle the Department of Education. So it would've been interesting had that happened while we were there. But there was definitely talk about how some of these executive orders, how DOGE cuts to the FAA are impacting this environment. And it seemed like there were some people who were optimistic, some people who were really reporting a lot of problems. So there was a speaker that talked a little bit about how potentially schools could maybe use this environment as an opportunity to think big, get creative. He had mentioned that big asks right now might not seem comparatively ridiculous in the current environment, but we were also hearing from different schools that they're absolutely seeing some negative impacts.

One person had said that the denial rate for international students at their school has skyrocketed in the last two months. ATEC has been working very closely with the FAA on certain things. For instance, they created a working group through the FAA Reauthorization Act last year, that's focused on making some changes to testing for airframe and powerplant technicians. And apparently the FAA has kind of gone radio silent, has been canceling meetings with them. The other thing that we're seeing an impact from is the anti-DEI executive order. So that's particularly impacting things like scholarships. One thing that was brought up is that part of the FAA Reauthorization Act last year that ATEC helped to get passed, it increases the amount of funding for MRO workforce grants. So things like scholarship and training programs, at least some of those scholarships have sort of a DEI focus.

So for instance, the Association for Women in Aviation Maintenance mentioned to me that in one state it is now illegal for them to provide scholarship funds to anybody in the school system there, because AWAM is technically considered a DEI group. And then for those workforce grant funds, there's apparently now going to have to be a reapplication for those by schools under reduced timeline. So it was 30 days, it looks like it's now going to be 15 days. And it sounds like that is literally so that schools can remove DEI language from that. So I don't envy sort of the hurdles and barriers that schools are working on. On the sort of more positive side, there was some talk about some of the priorities that were part of that Reauthorization Act last year that they're continuing to try to push for this year. One is for creating a military mechanic competency test.

So that would essentially help people who were military service members who worked on aircraft to simplify getting their A&P certification so that they can work for civil aviation companies, reducing barriers to testing to get A&P certifications. So part of that is focused on high school programs. There are programs that ATEC has worked on as well like Choose Aerospace where they've implemented aviation maintenance curriculum in high schools. So they want to make it so that the students who have completed that can now take the general portion of the FAA mechanic examination. One thing that I thought was interesting that I had no idea about, apparently some of the departments in the government don't designate aviation maintenance programs as a STEM field, which is kind of crazy. It's obviously a technology and engineering field. So ATEC wants to get aviation maintenance programs designated at STEM.

That would have two benefits. One being it would open up additional access to funding in some states, another being that it would help international students expand their visas, have access to more scholarships and employment opportunities because instead of only working under a one-year visa, they could work under a three-year visa. And it sounds like many of those scholarships and employment opportunities at airlines have a three-year minimum that they want them to have for that. So that's a big thing. And then my guess is Sean might talk about this, so I'll just briefly say, there was one interesting panel where airlines and some maintenance companies were talking about skills gaps that they're seeing in light of the juniority problem.

And we've heard a little bit about this before, but it sounds like some of the major issues are soft skills and avionics. And that seems to be driven in part by the fact that airlines are now hiring directly out of Part 147 schools rather than the way it used to be, students would graduate and they would go work at like an MRO or a regional airline and develop those skills for a few years before they would go work at a major airline. But I'll stop talking. I know Sean has some things to say about the conference as well.

James Pozzi:

No, thank you Lindsay. Really comprehensive there some of the points, and very interesting too for all sorts of reasons. And it's just worth plugging actually, Lindsay wrote a very detailed article on the federal roadblocks and how they slow the MRO workforce development. So make sure you check that out on aviationweek.com and read that. Yeah, thank you Lindsay. Onto Sean. What were some of your takeaways and maybe expanding on some of the things Lindsay talked about or anything else you saw? What stood out to you, Sean?

Sean Broderick:

Sure. Picking up where Lindsay left off, one of the most interesting trends that has been accelerated, I guess since the downturn and subsequent recovery is that the juniority issue, as Lindsay so eloquently put it. And it was exacerbated by accelerated retirements, voluntary retirements during the downturn, and the need for airlines to have certified mechanics on staff as they ramp up to try to meet current demand. So the Aviation Institute of Maintenance, which is the largest AMT in the country, they actually have, I don't know what? A dozen of them or 14 of them, something around the country. So the biggest collection of these Part 147 schools did an interesting survey for graduates that had their A&P certificate that became certified mechanics trying to figure out their career path now, and they compared it to data they had from 10 years ago. And the most interesting changes were where these mechanics were going to turn their first wrenches, so to speak.

Lindsay mentioned that regional airlines was a big destination 10 years ago. The biggest one 10 years ago at least, and this was heavily AIM graduates, I think was Delta Air Lines. It makes sense from a geographic standpoint if you know the history of AIM and where they were and the agreements they had. But then there were other contractors up in there, and as the MRO community knows, contractors are, and were a very large way of allowing major MRO shops to ramp up and spool down with demand, winter to summer changes, for example. These mechanics would go there and they would learn some of these basics or they get to practice some of these basics that the major airlines that are now hiring them, that are now at the top of that list complain aren't refined enough for these students. And it was safety wiring and how to drill up rivets and fastener holes.

And if you think about some of the issues that go beyond MRO, those are some of the problems that we've seen in the supply chain at Spirit AeroSystems, for example. So these companies are talking to the schools and they're communicating this, but one of the challenge is, a lot of the things they were... Or the things at the very top of that list from a technical standpoint are things that are learned very early in what is usually a two-year program. So it was interesting. So that could be sort of a retention issue and sort of an education issue as opposed to the kids never really learned it. I mean, if I took a two-year history class, I'm not sure I'd remember what I learned in the first two months. I'm not sure I'd remember anything at all. But if you were to test me on the first two months, I'd probably do worst.

Interesting thing to always follow with this conference is the symbiotic relationships between the job providers and the schools and how the shifting dynamics of the environment, the need for regional airlines to ensure they're getting enough mechanics now that the top end airlines are poaching them directly from the schools as opposed to before from the regional airlines. You're starting to see partnerships evolve. You're starting to see airlines offer incentives on the front end of students going into schools. The most successful one, and one of the original ones is at a Piedmont Airlines, which is out in Salisbury, Maryland on the Eastern Shore of Maryland here. They have about 150 students that have been handpicked by the airline and put through one of a handful of partner schools that they have, pay for their tuition starting from day one. And not just pay for it and say, "We'll see you and you have a job in two years," but they actually have the management of the airline tries to engage on a regular basis with those students and form a relationship and a bond with those students before they come out of school.

Now, it not only guarantees them employment or a pipeline, but in the case of a town like Salisbury, Maryland, they have a partnership with a local college, University of Maryland Eastern Shore. They target locals, they target kids that are there. And so if you live in a place like on the Eastern Shore, probably a better idea focus to try to target a future employee that already knows the area and wants to stay there, as opposed to relocating them from a place like Charlotte or a place like Arizona where they have other schools. So it's interesting to see these kind of relationships evolve, and work and the employers really getting in on the ground floor and securing a pipeline that they know they're going to need going forward. Because we all know there's a shortage in this country and not just in the U.S., but a shortage of certified mechanics in that pipeline because of retirement issues and 2% of [the mechanic population being] women. So the pipeline needs to get bigger. And we're in a really interesting way that employers are doing this.

James Pozzi:

Yeah, Sean. And very, very interesting and especially the examples there of the partnerships and what some companies and organizations are actually doing there. So yeah, those are very, very interesting takeaways from ATEC there. Lee Ann, of course, you were at ARSA. Every March when this conference takes place, I always see stories coming out related to everything from training, technician shortages seems to be a regular thing and some of the regulatory challenges as well. What were some of the takeaways you had from the ARSA conference that you attended?

Lee Ann Shay:

Thanks, James. You're right, the workforce issues definitely came up at the ARSA Symposium, but Lindsay and Sean did a really good job. So I'm going to skip that piece. But I wanted to shout out to ARSA because they really do an amazing job representing the MRO industry by knowing and understanding the nitty-gritty details of the regulations. And that's really good. And it's not just U.S. MROs and suppliers who come there, there were people from all around the world. So they focus on that. And ARSA hosts the symposium, they have a compliance, they host a Hill Day to facilitate meetings with their U.S. members and their congressional members. So really hands-on activity there. A few things to highlight, like Lindsay had mentioned, the FAA Reauthorization bill, which was signed May of 2024, is in the process of being enacted. And that funds the FAA through the fiscal year of 2028.

So this is not an every year sort of thing. So this is a big chunk. And a few things in that bill, there's several nuances to really improve the FAA rulemaking and oversight from how the aviation safety regulations are developed to guidance material. And keep in mind, this was last year, so this was not a Trump thing. This bill includes provisions to improve transparency, consistency, and public engagement. And Christian Klein said that he broadly considers, or people can broadly consider this to be the best FAA bill in generations. So when you take that and then plunk it into the current environment, a different administration with cuts and a desire for smaller, leaner government, ARSA was really promoting, this is the time to find how things can go smoother. So it's not all doom and gloom, but be proactive, reach out to the FAA, comment on things that are available.

And one of an FAA representative who was there said, there are changes, but you can't undo and change everything with a snap of an executive order or finger. And I think most people would agree that we do have a big government, and especially the way things have developed, some things are pretty bureaucratic and complicated. And someone alluded to hanging ornaments on a Christmas tree. Did all the ornaments have to be there? Could it have looked good with the smaller things? So I think one of the big takeaways was just this could be an opportunity to make things faster and more efficient, but it's going to take collaboration and the safety focus has to continue to be paramount. Tariffs came up, not a lot of news there. The U.S. does import export a heck of a lot of parts. So if all this rolls, what happens could have a very significant impact to the industry, but they're expecting more guidance from the administration in April.

So until that happens, I think it's just kind of a little bit of a wait and see. Another big thing, I mentioned international audience, the UK CAA was there. EASA, ANAC representatives from Brazil participated online in their annual opening salvo, which is like a free hour discussion with their regulators, getting into the bilaterals, those tiny little things that they're changing, working on. So lots of details there, but one thing that did come up was that there's still concerns from these entities about the drug and alcohol enforcement and effects. So lots of discussions including alternative solutions that are available for local civil aviation authorities. So really good event overall.

James Pozzi:

Excellent. Thank you, Lee Ann. Some very interesting points from ARSA too, certainly. And I guess that sets, obviously in a few weeks. We've got MRO Americas, it kind of sets the tone for that. And I guess some of these topics and discussion points will crop up there too. So something that I'll certainly be keeping my eyes open to at that event. And yeah, that brings the MRO Podcast to its conclusion today. So Lindsay, Sean, and Lee Ann, thank you so much. Don't miss the next episode, which will be an MRO Americas preview episode, by subscribing to the MRO Podcast wherever you listen. And one last request. If you're listening in Apple Podcasts and want to support this podcast, please leave us a star rating or write a review. Thanks.