Aviation Week & Space Technology

Podcast: F-35 in the Crossfire, Part 2

Discuss this Video 26

on Jul 21, 2017

Lockheed, JSF/JPO and Air Force Leadership Lied to POTUS. F-22, F-35, B-2, are all worthless and needs to be Cancelled! The only STEATH platform was the F-117 that was retired to Davis-Mothan AFB Boneyard back in November 2008 because it was SHOT Down during the Yugoslavian Campaign. Pieces of the F-117 was exploited by Russian and China that allows them to Track Stealth Platforms. At that Point in 1998 the F-35 Should have been CANCELED. Since then IRST and other types of Infrared systems can (Find, Fix, Track, Target and Engage, ((F2T2EA)) each of these platforms and shoot them down utilizing Ground to Air or Air-Air CONOPS.
The POTUS needs to FIRE all Air Force Senior Leadership and hire WARRIORS in the Ranks. We have been lied to for over 20 years and are spending Billions and Trillions based complete bogus information. The entire Senior Leadership at the DoD needs to be FIRED by the POTUS. POTUS needs to STOP all prior Admiral and Generals from being Lobbyist or providing Acquisition information to any prime integrator or information biases following retirement except without permission of the POTUS.
These Retired General officers promote their Friends then go to work for a Major Integrator (LMCO) then go back to lobby the people they promoted. This is absurd and exactly why Wall Street and Feds, Big Pharma and FDA, Healthcare and Insurance. A Joke.
STEALTH IS DEAD, IRST, S-400, S-400 and other advisory Radar and Infrared Tracking. We are setting ourselves up for defeat while spending TRILLIONS FOR NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!

on Jul 21, 2017

Take a breath... Give it a rest... And THINK for a moment.
The aircraft with the highest survivability in high-threat areas as demonstrated in actual combat, are those with stealth.
Non-stealthy Russian and US aircraft have suffered many losses to old and new SAM systems alike. And yet here you are, screaming about a single shoot down as proof that stealthy aircraft are somehow obsolete?, Talk about completely ignoring facts:

ONE F-117 was shot down, and that under conditions favorable to it being lost. Against similar systems over Georgia, how'd the Russian aircraft fair? Yeah, we know.... about the same as the non-stealthy platforms in the 91 Gulf War against vastly superior numbers of SAMs.
Every new prototype uses stealth as a major component - Funny how the Pak Fa, designed by the same country that designed all these systems you're claiming are so capable, designed stealth in from the start.
Next you'll tell us that the reason the Russians designed stealth in is because US systems are so much less capable at finding, tracking, and shooting down their flying buses, right?

on Jul 23, 2017

You need to take a rest... your projectile vomiting with cause you to have numerous medical conditions.

on Jul 21, 2017

As a retired employee from the defense industry, I appreciate the candid feedback from those who have operated modern aircraft (and sustainment) platforms and employed them in a 21st century environment.

I would like to eco retired Marine Lt. Col. David Berke's need to first learn how to use this platform in a relevant environment, then feedback to industry and program manage improvements, while infusing synergies across other platforms to improve battle space management for all our services and allies.

on Jul 21, 2017

That was the politest slapping I have heard in a long time. Well done Chip.

on Jul 21, 2017

The will be no substitute to combat tactics and excellent airmanship, no matter the platform, stealth capability.

on Jul 21, 2017

Pierre Sprey has been wrong about every criticism of the F-15, F-18, and F-22. And the F-35 has proven itself much more agile and capable than what Pierre Sprey gave it credit for. Why does this guy's words even have any weight?

on Jul 21, 2017

Sprey knows a lot less than he claims to know. He's basically full of it and is quite annoying. Berke must have bitten his tongue more than once and the podcast would have been better with more of him and less of Sprey.

on Jul 21, 2017

Berke just told us the standard LM pitch, hes obviously gone through a media training course where 'you sell the sizzle not the sausage'. The idea that there is valid criticism of this plane just doesnt seem to be something he doesnt want to talk about. Even the moderator had to point out when she went to Edwards to see the plane in action, it took an hours delay while the planes computers were rebooted multiple times. Not a single fault seemed to be allowed to go past Col Berke lips.

on Jul 22, 2017

The multiple reboots are using older developmental software, which was pointed out by the moderator.

on Jul 24, 2017

Hi Duke,
I've never been to any media training and didn't intend to imply there are no faults with the aircraft. The F-35, like all machines, has faults...my comments about being an Operational Test Pilot were meant to convey that all we do is focus on those faults and things that need fixing/improving. I've gone to cold iron countless times...it can be frustrating.

But I appreciate your input...listeners should understand that the F-35 is by no means without flaws.

Dave

on Jul 22, 2017

Berke is either totally naive fool or playing such when it comes to F-35 related industry-politics.

on Jul 21, 2017

Berke seems to far more enthusiastic about the plane then even Lockheed is ?. When the point was raised on how many computer restarts were required just for a mission to take off, we went off on how passionate and dedicated the LM people are who go into work every day.
I can tell a marketing pitch when I hear it, yes the plane has got many great features ( when they work) but its certainly not the 'the greatest', 'the most fantastic' and made by 'the most dedicated' employees.
Enough of the puffery.

on Jul 22, 2017

Just for the sake of interest, you do realise that the DOT&E that Sprey was waving around as proof of the Second Coming. Is in fact the data given to them by the F-35 joint program office JPO. So every correctly stated issue is well known and generally by the time of publication, is probably 6-12 months old.

Sprey should also qualify which software block he is referring too, some points were from very early blocks and not relevant with the later blocks.

on Jul 21, 2017

Also congratulations to AvWeek for getting Sprey away from RT for a while, that would have been a feat in and of itself. Was he the ninth man in the room?

on Jul 22, 2017

definetly not

on Jul 22, 2017

2 experts on the F-35? One IS an expert and the other is Pierre Sprey...

on Jul 23, 2017

Lots of gum flapping on this site about the superior unrefueled range of the F-35.

So my question is:

What is the internal fuel capacity of the F-35A, F-35B and F-35C aircraft?

on Jul 23, 2017

You and your Russian friends will have to hack computers for that data!

on Jul 23, 2017

As a 28 year combat veteran, I want to thank you for your service, your opinions, and your passion! There are a lot of armchair engineers and pilots that post on this site... Most of them have no real experience or background. They are either working for other countries or manufacturers to stop the production of weapons systems that stand in their way of bringing the United States down.

Pierre Sprey is an embarrassment and lacks any real relevant facts and current data.

Lt. Col. David Berke, I wish you a full, happy, and healthy life... and I salute you!

on Jul 24, 2017

Thanks to you as well JetVet for your service!

on Jul 25, 2017

Mr Berke,

I enjoyed listening to the podcast, and I especially enjoyed listening to you correcting Mr Sprey´s misconceptions in a polite, to-the-point and professional manner. (I´m not sure I could have kept my cool to the same extent, when faced with some of his remarks.)

As an active F-35 user, with my background in the F-16, I agree 100% with you. Mr Sprey claims scientific support, but what I hear is really his own beliefs on repeat. (And I wonder what his alternative to the F-35 would be?) I would like to emphasize your comment on us being a critical group of people, who have a strong self-interest in the best possible platform. The F-35 isn´t perfect, and neither is any other fighter out there. Still, even with its issues, I am completely confident in the F-35´s abilities. The airplane is no less than impressive.

To me, the bigger problem with "experts" such as Mr Sprey, is that they create unwarranted noise and attention and may end up leading our desicion-makers astray when it comes to future acquisition priorities.

Thanks for your strong voice

on Jul 26, 2017

I appreciate the feedback Dolby and your take on the program. We all need to do a better job of explaining ourselves and preventing what you described...unwarranted and uninformed attention. Lots of very strong opinions out there (to include these forums) from people not familiar with the program. Keep up the great work.

on Jul 23, 2017

According to Pierre....the test pilots are lying, the operational pilots are lying, their commanders are lying, the JPO is lying, the government is lying, and the person who is hosting the debate is an idiot. Only Pierre knows the truth.

on Jul 25, 2017

A perspective from an old retired Aerodynamic Engineer.
Talk is cheap if not supported by facts...so let's look at some facts...real numbers!

F-35A at Paris air show!
F-35A Empty wt. ~22,500 Lb. Fuel on board 9,250 Lb . Take-off weight ~31,750 Lb.
Wing Loading (lb/ft2) 48.9 Thrust to Weight Ratio (T/W) 0.78 Dry/After burner off.

F-35A Full combat readiness!
F-35A ~ Empty wt. ~22,500 Lb. Fuel 18500 Lb. Armament ~15,000 Lb. Take-off weight ~ 56,000 Lb.
Wing loading (lb/ft2) 121.7 Thrust to Weight Ratio (T/W) 0.44 Dry (After burner off)
Note. Only ~25% - 30% armament carried internally. Removable "external racks" (hard points) provided for external weaponry.
Stealth awareness reduced! Weight not an issue? Think again!
globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/f-35-specs.htm
aereo.jor.br/2010/07/22/comparacao-entre-o-f-22-e-o-f-35/

Using Lockheed Martin published specifications & actual flight performance the F-35A pales in comparison to the F-22 Raptor!
An aerial confrontation with the F-22 Raptor would be it's demise! Against Russia's Sukhoi SU-35 ? ...your guess!

Exactly what was Lockheed Martin thinking when designing this aircraft?!!!

on Jul 26, 2017

The comments here side quite strongly with the Lt. Col., but there where quite a few things they agreed on. Burke' s explanation that saving money on a weapon that can't be used in a contested environment was the obvious counter point to Pierre's comment. But I have seen and read enough of the MICC to know what Pierre is talking about when he discuss weapons getting built, procured, that aren't effective. You would have to be a bit blind not to have seen Congress adding purchases the Pentagon didn't ask for. In my experience with the F-35, the truth is in the middle.

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